Used motorcycle: buying routine and contract (help needed)

[Angelo_gs]

Hello guys, again, nice to talk to you.

As I said in my introduction post,
I'm going to buy a used motorcycle from a private, so I need some advices on the contract and necessary steps to do here in Germany. I'm absolutely new to the country so I know nothing about the routines. Would really appreciate your feedbacks.

First of all, inspection and test. Let's suppose it'll be OK, what's next?

1. I suppose we have an agreement on the price and sign a contract (found one on mobile.de, is it reliable?)
2. The bike stays still at the seller place (right?)
3. I have to insure the bike (is it possible without registering FIRST, the motorcycle?)
4. We have to go together... (I don't know where, can you tell me?) to register the motorcycle in my name
5. After that I give the money to him. (cash or any other more reliable way?)
6. At this point I can get the plate number (or it is possible to get it anyway sooner?)
7. I go to his place and get my amazing F800GS

Is this correct? Would you do the same?

Can you also help me to understand what the following contract section means:

VI. Ummeldung des Fahrzeuges
Der Käufer verpflichtet sich, das Fahrzeug unverzüglich, jedoch spätestens innerhalb einer Woche ab Übergabe umzumelden: ja/nein
Das Fahrzeug wird nach Abschluss des Kaufvertrags abgemeldet übergeben: ja/nein

Thank you in advance and sorry for the long post


Cheers, or better, Tschüss!

 

[Schlonz]

handling varies from seller to seller. Cash is the was to go in first place. Mobile.de contracts are fine and waive the buyer's rights for any guarantee whatsoever which is a common procedure for Germany.

Some sellers will hand you the insured vehicle, most will not. If you are living in the same county (Landkreis in Germany) seller and you can go to the administration (Zulassungsstelle) and registrate the bike to you. Make sure to have your stuff together like passport and your registration certificate from the german Einwohnermeldeamt which is proof for your registred adress. Documents will be registred to your name, you buy the license plate which will get it's stamps and you're good to go.

Other sellers will take their bike off the road and you either haul it away without license plate or you take all docs required to the Zulassung, get your own plate, back to the seller, plate on, off you go. If you are living/registering in another Landkreis you need to bring the bike to the Zulassung and they'll check property, VIN and stuff, things that are your due diligence anyways.

For the insurance you need a doc called EVB (Elektronische Versicherungsbestätigung) that indicates that vehicle is insured to the Zulassung.

German documents are Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil 1 and Teil 2, big document for the vault and small one for the purse to carry. Both are needed and have to be part of the purchase, but again, due diligence, do your homework, my infos are not meant to be complete or bullet proof

Good luck

 

[Schlonz]

Der Käufer verpflichtet sich, das Fahrzeug unverzüglich, jedoch spätestens innerhalb einer Woche ab Übergabe umzumelden: ja/nein
Das Fahrzeug wird nach Abschluss des Kaufvertrags abgemeldet übergeben: ja/nein

the buyer obliges to register the vehicle to him within one week or earlier from the moment of receipt.

The vehicle is handed over taken off the road yes/no

 

[Angelo_gs]

Thank you so much Schlonz! Clear!
Yes, I live in Germany.

Will give an update soon.

 

[Schlonz]

Thank you so much Schlonz! Clear!
Yes, I live in Germany.

Will give an update soon.

more than welcome. Don't hesitate to ask here when in any doubt. It's easy, but not free of traps

 

[Demokrit]

Hi Angelo,

to answer a few of your questions:

mobile.de is one of the 2 major platforms for verhicle trade in Europe/Germany. It's as "reliable" as Ebay, which means that there are serious sellers as well as creepy creatures.

Step 1: Assumed that you will not sign a contract prior to inspecting the bike (I wouldn't do so), you could stick to a kind of "letter of intent", saying: Yes, I will buy the bike if anything looks good on site. A serious seller will accept that - and even help you with local procedures. Ask for an address to meet him or her, and verify this address via Google Maps (should be a residential address).

Step 2: Travel to the sellers address. Do NOT take money with you if the address sounds something strange (like a filling station on the autobahn). Inspect the bike and check the documents (especially frame number, VIN). If the bike is currently registered, the owner should have two documents: 1) The "Fahrzeugschein" (this is needed while operating the vehicle in Germany, so you might need it for a test drive) and 2) The "Fahrzeugbrief", which is the real document of ownership.

Step 3: If everything is ok, sign a contract with the seller. mobile.de features some sample contracts, which should be ok. Exchange your money against the "Fahrzeugbrief". From that very moment you are the owner.

Step 4) You need a registration (on your name) as well as an insurance to drive the bike out of Germany. Since you do not have a german address, you will not get a regular insurance, like residents would. Instead you go to an office of ADAC (biggest german automobile club, like RAC in the UK) to buy an insurance for a "short term plate" (Kurzzeitkennzeichen) or an "export plate" (Exportkennzeichen). Which one to take depends of your final target country, and people at ADAC should recommend the right one. This insurance will only cover damages to other people, but not theft, flood or fire. So take good care of your new possession. It's a good idea to ask in your home country wether it's allowed to drive home on a german export plate.

Step 5) Next you go to a local registration office called "Zulassungsstelle" or "Strassenverkehrsamt", where you'll get a temporary "Fahrzeugschein". Either for a short term plate or an export plate. You have to present a sales contract, the insurance policy and the "Fahrzeugbrief" here.

Step 6) Enjoy the new bike and drive it home (as far as I know you have to take a direct route - so don't go on vaccation with it).

Ask the seller to assist you with steps 4 and 5.

Cheers,

Thomas

 

[Angelo_gs]

Hi Thomas, nice to meet you, and thanks for the suggestions.
Knowledge is growing and things are more clear.

I live in Germany now, so no problem for extra arrangement to take the bike abroad.

Step 3: If everything is ok, sign a contract with the seller. mobile.de features some sample contracts, which should be ok. Exchange your money against the "Fahrzeugbrief". From that very moment you are the owner.

So from this moment on I can go to the Zulassungstelle by my own and register the bike in my name? (I'm staying in Germany so no need to export the bike abroad).
It means that if I require a temporary plate number and insurance (is it possible to buy one before to have a bike?) I can even take the bike with me the same day.

Step 4) You need a registration (on your name) as well as an insurance to drive the bike out of Germany. Since you do not have a german address, you will not get a regular insurance, like residents would. Instead you go to an office of ADAC (biggest german automobile club, like RAC in the UK) to buy an insurance for a "short term plate" (Kurzzeitkennzeichen) or an "export plate" (Exportkennzeichen). Which one to take depends of your final target country, and people at ADAC should recommend the right one. This insurance will only cover damages to other people, but not theft, flood or fire. So take good care of your new possession. It's a good idea to ask in your home country wether it's allowed to drive home on a german export plate.

Since I live in Germany I can get a regular insurance, but I'd like to do all the practicalities while the bike is at my place and not still at the (former) owner which can still do whatever with the bike.

Basically my struggle is to understand how can I get my bike safe at home and not let it at the owner place, because everything can happen while I'm doing the paperworks, even "disappear"...
Maybe a visit at ADAC would be good, isn't it?

 

[Demokrit]

No, you don't need the ADAC if you have a german address. Everything is much easier now.

Contact any german insurance company, check an compare prices, and chose the best one. Make sure to let your previous (possibly non-german) insurance company testify the number of years without an accident (in writing). This leads to large discounts on the tariff. If you're settled, ask for a "Deckungskarte". You don't need any vehicle details for that, so, if you pick another bike in the end, you can use the same "Deckungskarte". It will be used at the "Zulassungsstelle" as a proof of insurance. After vehicle registration contact the insurance company again, and give them the vehicle- and registration details (License plate).

As far as I know (I moved out of Germany a hundred years ago) not every "Zulassungsstelle" will issue plates to non residents. Lets say, you are living in Hamburg, but the bike is in Munich. The "Zulassungsstelle" in Munich might say "you have to go to the Hamburg office, to get the final registration. In that case, they can issue a "Kurzzeitkennzeichen", which can be used for the transfer to Hamburg. Might be a good idea to contact your local "Zulassungsstelle" in advance.

 

[generalgarden]

many insurance agencies can send the insurance information for the Zulassungsstelle by SMS to your phone. Most information is transferred to the Zulassungsstelle in advance, you then only need the number on your phone and the documents identifying you as the owner.

Regarding choosing an insurance company: there are independent insurance agencies all over the place, they don't do business with one single insurance company but with several of them. Probably easier to go to one of those with your vehicle information (model name, year, BHP) and have them find the cheapest insurance for you. As soon as you have actually bought the bike, just give them a call to send you the information for the Zulassungsstelle to your phone.

Regarding taking the bike with you: the previous owner has to unregister the bike. For that he needs the license plate and the bike documents. So if the bike is still registered, you probably can't take it with you. Some sellers do trust the buyer enough to allow them to take the bike on their insurance, but most wouldn't do that (I got lucky with both my last car and my last bike, so I seem to look trustworthy). If you're lucky, the seller allows you to move the bike with his plates still on it. Then you just have to go to the Zulassungsstelle once, to unregister the old and register your new plates. If you're not lucky, you either need the final plates for the bike (making it necessary to get the bikes documents in advance to get the plates) or temporary plates that allow you to move the bike for a few days under full insurance - you can get those at the Zulassungsstelle too. May cost a few € more but depending on where the bike is located this may be easier. The Zulassungsstelle is a government office, so "speed" and "service" are written in Comic Sans, size 2. Renting a motorbike trailer at a local garage should also be possible, provided you have access to a car with a tow-bar.

 

[der niederrheiner]

Today the „Deckungskarte" is only a number. Check before you go to the registration, if you need to give them your bankaccount datas. No bankaccount, no taxpaying, no registration plate.

The „Fahrzeugschein" is the „Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil I", „Fahrzeugbrief" -> „Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil II". If it is an older bike you have the old named papers. They will change it at the registration office.

 

[Schlonz]

Since I live in Germany I can get a regular insurance, but I'd like to do all the practicalities while the bike is at my place and not still at the (former) owner which can still do whatever with the bike.

Basically my struggle is to understand how can I get my bike safe at home and not let it at the owner place, because everything can happen while I'm doing the paperworks, even "disappear"...
Maybe a visit at ADAC would be good, isn't it?

fairly easy, simply follow my advices given. Buy the bike, i.e. check, sign contract (both parties), pay, get Zulassungsbescheinigung 1 and 2, all keys. Here this sentence is applied: the buyer obliges to register the vehicle to him within one week or earlier from the moment of receipt. If the seller agrees on this, means your trustworthy enough, the bike will stay registred to the seller and also insured to his name. Bike retains it's original license plate and can be driven away without any changes. You should be fair enough to go to the Zulassungsstelle/Verkehrsamt the next day and register the bike to you.

If the vehicle is handed over taken off the road what most sellers probably prefer, you can either get a temporary plate at the Zulassungsstelle as well or haul it away. For the plate you need the EVB from any insurance company again and your passport and as a non german resident the proof of residence from the german Meldebehörde/Einwohnermeldeamt.

Where are you/the bike in question located? Maybe you can get someone in to help you out a bit.

Don't be confused with the different terms mentioned here as there are some which are no longer valid. The correct terms of what you need are:

1. Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil 1 (formerly known as Kfz-Schein) the small document for your purse on the road

Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil 2 (formerly known as the Kfz-Brief) which is the vehicle's passport and the document of ownership. The posession of this document means ownership of the vehicle

the COC (certificate of conformity)

this applies for newer bikes only. Older vehicles may still have the older papers. What is the year built of the bike in question?


Again, when in doubt, simply ask. You can shoot me a message over the forum if you'd like to talk on the phone and I can send you my phone nr..

You can also send me the link to the seller's ad and I can check him, maybe call him and check for his adress or if the ad is a possible scam. You can trust me, I won't snag the bike from you, I have everything I need.

 

[der niederrheiner]

. . .

Don't be confused with the different terms mentioned here as there are some which are no longer valid. The correct terms of what you need are:
. . .

Ich könnt mir ja jedesmal vor Begeisterung auf die Schenkel klatschen, wenn alle anderen mal eben in so 'nem Halbsatz als dumm und ahnungslos bezeichnet werden. . .

 

[Schlonz]

Ich könnt mir ja jedesmal vor Begeisterung auf die Schenkel klatschen, wenn alle anderen mal eben in so 'nem Halbsatz als dumm und ahnungslos bezeichnet werden. . .

das ist ja schön, dass Du Dich so freust, allerdings ging es mir eher darum, jemandem, der weder den Prozess als solchen, noch die korrekten Begriffe kennt, nicht auch noch mit falschen Bezeichnungen wie Schein, Brief, Deckungskarte loszuschicken

 

[Angelo_gs]

Hello guys,
thanks for all the answers an help. I bought my bike, all docs OK, contract, doc I, doc II and specs of the bike.
And I've also the bike with me alread. Yeah!

Tomorrow I'm going to register it in my name.
Does it needs to be insured already or is possible to insure it after the registration in my name?

 

[Schlonz]

Hello guys,
thanks for all the answers an help. I bought my bike, all docs OK, contract, doc I, doc II and specs of the bike.
And I've also the bike with me alread. Yeah!

Tomorrow I'm going to register it in my name.
Does it needs to be insured already or is possible to insure it after the registration in my name?

Congrats, well done.

Get the EVB (elektronische Versicherungsbestätigung) from the insurance company of your choice firstly. Maybe you can call the Zulassungsstelle and ask if they have an english speaking employee there who can give you detailed advice of everything required, but shouldn't be more than I listed before. I checked the site of our administration here, but it isn't available in English.

BTW, you need to give them your bank data, BIC/IBAN as they won't register the bike without it.

Here's the list of the required stuff from their site http://www.mtk.org/cps/rde/xbcr/SID-33E868DF-F19D4DC6/mtk_internet/Anmeldung_von_Fahrzeugen0215.pdf

• den Fahrzeugbrief/Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil II bzw. die Betriebserlaubnis
• den Fahrzeugschein/Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil I
• die elektronische Versicherungsbestätigung (eVB)
• die gültige TÜV-Bescheinigung (wenn das Fahrzeug älter als 3 Jahre ist)
• die bisherigen amtlichen Kennzeichen, wenn das Fahrzeug zugelassen ist
• den gültigen Personalausweis oder
• den gültigen Reisepass mit Meldebescheinigung (nicht älter als 3 Monate) oder
• den gültigen Passersatz (Personalausweisersatz)
• SEPA-Mandat (IBAN, BIC) für die Kfz-Steuer

Good luck, in some Landkreisen in can be quite an experience.